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	<title>Comments on: Who Writes Games, Anyway?</title>
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		<title>By: The Average Gamer &#187; Susan O&#8217;Connor on Writing For Games</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-53368</link>
		<dc:creator>The Average Gamer &#187; Susan O&#8217;Connor on Writing For Games</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 16:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-53368</guid>
		<description>[...] development teams. Her opinion of current games writing sounds much like Gordon Rennie&#8217;s. I linked to his ScottishGames interview back in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] development teams. Her opinion of current games writing sounds much like Gordon Rennie&#8217;s. I linked to his ScottishGames interview back in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Average Gamer &#187; 16 Things to Include in Every RPG Journal</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-51518</link>
		<dc:creator>The Average Gamer &#187; 16 Things to Include in Every RPG Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 10:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-51518</guid>
		<description>[...] Hired genre-appropriate writer? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hired genre-appropriate writer? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Weefz</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-16730</link>
		<dc:creator>Weefz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 23:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-16730</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m working on it. Kinda. Sorta. Not convinced my efforts will ever see the light of day. 

I have trouble writing voices other than my own. When I try to write dialogue everyone kinda sounds like me. It&#039;s not pretty. In other words... I&#039;m not a fiction writer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m working on it. Kinda. Sorta. Not convinced my efforts will ever see the light of day. </p>
<p>I have trouble writing voices other than my own. When I try to write dialogue everyone kinda sounds like me. It&#8217;s not pretty. In other words&#8230; I&#8217;m not a fiction writer.</p>
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		<title>By: granola54</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-16727</link>
		<dc:creator>granola54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 23:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-16727</guid>
		<description>dont sit around waiting for storylines to improve - get in there and show people how it should be done with a tool like gamemaker!

http://www.gamingw.net/tutorials/gamemaker

http://www.gamemaker.nl/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dont sit around waiting for storylines to improve &#8211; get in there and show people how it should be done with a tool like gamemaker!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gamingw.net/tutorials/gamemaker" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamingw.net/tutorials/gamemaker</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.gamemaker.nl/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamemaker.nl/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Weefz</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-16509</link>
		<dc:creator>Weefz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-16509</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;hotpotatoe:&lt;/strong&gt; You make some very good points. Switching levels around to balance gameplay and all that other stuff can wreak havoc on a storyline. Good project management should take care of most it, but (anecdotally) I suppose that&#039;s something else that the industry seems to be lacking.

I&#039;m not sure where the difficulty of writers writing for games comes from. The concept of multiple outcomes is not a new thing to fiction. I&#039;m not expecting games to suddenly turn into Schindler&#039;s List. I just want a little ingenuity and maybe a believable character or two. At the moment, it seems most games are written from a basic template. The example you give is exactly the reason I don&#039;t play Zelda games.

There&#039;s more to the world than dungeons, dragons, Nazis and biological experiments gone awry. And there&#039;s more to &quot;excitement&quot; than spawning identikit cannon fodder. Let&#039;s see it one day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>hotpotatoe:</strong> You make some very good points. Switching levels around to balance gameplay and all that other stuff can wreak havoc on a storyline. Good project management should take care of most it, but (anecdotally) I suppose that&#8217;s something else that the industry seems to be lacking.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where the difficulty of writers writing for games comes from. The concept of multiple outcomes is not a new thing to fiction. I&#8217;m not expecting games to suddenly turn into Schindler&#8217;s List. I just want a little ingenuity and maybe a believable character or two. At the moment, it seems most games are written from a basic template. The example you give is exactly the reason I don&#8217;t play Zelda games.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s more to the world than dungeons, dragons, Nazis and biological experiments gone awry. And there&#8217;s more to &#8220;excitement&#8221; than spawning identikit cannon fodder. Let&#8217;s see it one day.</p>
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		<title>By: hot potatoe</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-16301</link>
		<dc:creator>hot potatoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-16301</guid>
		<description>Most companies working on AA or AAA games will hire writers. But there are many factors that can still leave a game with a crappo narrative:

They (the dev studio) may hire in a PRO writer, but thats not going to automatically define quality control. The writer could be a mainstream hack, just as in hollywood. Remember Joe Eszterhas? (http://imdb.com/name/nm0000390/ ) - he got noticed off the back of one hit (basic instinct) which boosted his career to allow him to write a slew of godawful big budget movies.

However, assume a dev studio hires a quality PRO writer - will that writer understand how to write for games? Although people have talked about games as `movie-like` experience ever since crap like sewer shark/ night trap (mega cd), its only now that the visuals are really approaching film quality. And as the looks get better, the other elements (sound/story etc) by contrast begin to warrant greater expectations.

So assume they have a great writer, who actually knows how to write for games, everything should be fine yes? Well now you have the game development process itself to deal with, will it be completed early? will it slip? will portions of the game be dropped at the last minute? or levels shifted around to balance gameplay? Lots of dynamic possibilities can conspire to corrupt a perfectly well written game script. Also how do the dev team implement the story? maybe some designers want to add their own personality into it? there are lots of things that could `interfere` with a positive outcome.

But thats not to say lots of things cant go right as well. Remember that Game development is not film development. It may have similarities, but its different. And also dont forget its a very young industry - film by contrast has been going for over 100 years, giving it a much larger library of classics, but the dross to classic ratio is probably about the same as games all in all (think of all the bad hollywood films/tv movies etc etc).

One other element that can hurt games is the attempt to be mass market, to appeal to the lowest common denominator. As games become more expensive the publishers become more worried about returns (as rather than releasing 10 mid/low budget games that you can spread your bets on making you money, you now have 2 or 3 expensive potential turkeys). You may want to give people stories that are not too taxing, and have to cater for the casual gamer is they are to be the greatest portion of you market - an old game story that can seem hackneyed to an older more experienced individual, can seem fresh to a novice.

Think how zelda repeats itself over time, Ganon always the great enemy at the end, Zelda always in a pickle, each dungeon giving up familiar weapons... Some elements cant help but become predictable. But then theres an old quote to consider -  &quot;give them what they want, but not the way they expect it&quot;. You may know whats coming in the game, but if how you arrive there really exciting then its not so much of a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most companies working on AA or AAA games will hire writers. But there are many factors that can still leave a game with a crappo narrative:</p>
<p>They (the dev studio) may hire in a PRO writer, but thats not going to automatically define quality control. The writer could be a mainstream hack, just as in hollywood. Remember Joe Eszterhas? (<a href="http://imdb.com/name/nm0000390/" rel="nofollow">http://imdb.com/name/nm0000390/</a> ) &#8211; he got noticed off the back of one hit (basic instinct) which boosted his career to allow him to write a slew of godawful big budget movies.</p>
<p>However, assume a dev studio hires a quality PRO writer &#8211; will that writer understand how to write for games? Although people have talked about games as `movie-like` experience ever since crap like sewer shark/ night trap (mega cd), its only now that the visuals are really approaching film quality. And as the looks get better, the other elements (sound/story etc) by contrast begin to warrant greater expectations.</p>
<p>So assume they have a great writer, who actually knows how to write for games, everything should be fine yes? Well now you have the game development process itself to deal with, will it be completed early? will it slip? will portions of the game be dropped at the last minute? or levels shifted around to balance gameplay? Lots of dynamic possibilities can conspire to corrupt a perfectly well written game script. Also how do the dev team implement the story? maybe some designers want to add their own personality into it? there are lots of things that could `interfere` with a positive outcome.</p>
<p>But thats not to say lots of things cant go right as well. Remember that Game development is not film development. It may have similarities, but its different. And also dont forget its a very young industry &#8211; film by contrast has been going for over 100 years, giving it a much larger library of classics, but the dross to classic ratio is probably about the same as games all in all (think of all the bad hollywood films/tv movies etc etc).</p>
<p>One other element that can hurt games is the attempt to be mass market, to appeal to the lowest common denominator. As games become more expensive the publishers become more worried about returns (as rather than releasing 10 mid/low budget games that you can spread your bets on making you money, you now have 2 or 3 expensive potential turkeys). You may want to give people stories that are not too taxing, and have to cater for the casual gamer is they are to be the greatest portion of you market &#8211; an old game story that can seem hackneyed to an older more experienced individual, can seem fresh to a novice.</p>
<p>Think how zelda repeats itself over time, Ganon always the great enemy at the end, Zelda always in a pickle, each dungeon giving up familiar weapons&#8230; Some elements cant help but become predictable. But then theres an old quote to consider &#8211;  &#8220;give them what they want, but not the way they expect it&#8221;. You may know whats coming in the game, but if how you arrive there really exciting then its not so much of a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Weefz</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-15386</link>
		<dc:creator>Weefz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-15386</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I&#039;d like to think with that length of time in the not too distant future you&#039;ll see the characterisation, scripting and story arc that you will remember just as much as say Saving Private Ryan or Wild Strawberries.&lt;/em&gt;

Yeah. When they start hiring some freaking writers ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I&#8217;d like to think with that length of time in the not too distant future you&#8217;ll see the characterisation, scripting and story arc that you will remember just as much as say Saving Private Ryan or Wild Strawberries.</em></p>
<p>Yeah. When they start hiring some freaking writers ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Butterscotch</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-15383</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Butterscotch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-15383</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re damn right about Gears.  It is a great game and very compelling, even if there&#039;s nothing too new.  It helps that it looks fantastic though.

Okay, so you have D&amp;D games from 1988, but Pong came out wayyyy back in 1972.  Gaming is (using Pong as the reference point) about 35ish years old.  So for say about a third of its life as an entertainment medium &lt;i&gt;there was no story&lt;/i&gt;, only the gameplay experience.  So in those terms you&#039;re right it&#039;s not THAT new.  On the other hand, look at how much film has developed over the 90+ years it has been around.  I&#039;d like to think with that length of time in the not too distant future you&#039;ll see the characterisation, scripting and story arc that you will remember just as much as say Saving Private Ryan or Wild Strawberries.

I guess part of what makes a game so compelling is that it can offer a multitude of things - interaction, story, characters, a world to explore, excitement and much more.  Don&#039;t even get me started on the genre choice... and the back catalogue.

You&#039;re absolutely right on a good premise making a game.  A great premise with some interesting mechanics (such as System Shock 2) can give a totally compelling, almost mind altering experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re damn right about Gears.  It is a great game and very compelling, even if there&#8217;s nothing too new.  It helps that it looks fantastic though.</p>
<p>Okay, so you have D&amp;D games from 1988, but Pong came out wayyyy back in 1972.  Gaming is (using Pong as the reference point) about 35ish years old.  So for say about a third of its life as an entertainment medium <i>there was no story</i>, only the gameplay experience.  So in those terms you&#8217;re right it&#8217;s not THAT new.  On the other hand, look at how much film has developed over the 90+ years it has been around.  I&#8217;d like to think with that length of time in the not too distant future you&#8217;ll see the characterisation, scripting and story arc that you will remember just as much as say Saving Private Ryan or Wild Strawberries.</p>
<p>I guess part of what makes a game so compelling is that it can offer a multitude of things &#8211; interaction, story, characters, a world to explore, excitement and much more.  Don&#8217;t even get me started on the genre choice&#8230; and the back catalogue.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right on a good premise making a game.  A great premise with some interesting mechanics (such as System Shock 2) can give a totally compelling, almost mind altering experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Weefz</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-15293</link>
		<dc:creator>Weefz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-15293</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Have you ever picked up a game for the storyline?&lt;/em&gt;

Nope, but I do feel let down by hackneyed scripting and characterisation. Although I talked about linearity above, there&#039;s more to writing than just storyline. Half-Life and its sequels are notably outstanding examples of the FPS genre that make you really care about the world and the characters within it. That&#039;s the sort of thing I&#039;m asking for. 

I&#039;ve said elsewhere, Gears of War&#039;s tactics and gameplay are nothing to be really impressed by but the game itself was enjoyable. There was a reason for going into these places to shoot everything in sight and the characters of Cole and Delta Squad are engaging. I love the way you hear something in the background and just as you&#039;re thinking &quot;What the hell was that?&quot; one of the squad says exactly the same thing. That&#039;s simple but effective writing. Sin Episodes - fun shooter built on the same engine as HL2, storyline was completely pants and clichÃ©. Neverwinter Nights 2 started out interesting but now I&#039;m in the Docks in a boring Thieves vs City Guards storyline, which isn&#039;t exactly inspiring to say the least.

Intriguing premise and characters can help make a good game into a great game. It can be the reason to choose shooter A over shooter B, especially if you don&#039;t have an established franchise to build on.

The Secret of Monkey Island came out in 1990. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Box&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gold Box D&amp;D games&lt;/a&gt; started in 1988. Characters and plot in games isn&#039;t that new a concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Have you ever picked up a game for the storyline?</em></p>
<p>Nope, but I do feel let down by hackneyed scripting and characterisation. Although I talked about linearity above, there&#8217;s more to writing than just storyline. Half-Life and its sequels are notably outstanding examples of the FPS genre that make you really care about the world and the characters within it. That&#8217;s the sort of thing I&#8217;m asking for. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said elsewhere, Gears of War&#8217;s tactics and gameplay are nothing to be really impressed by but the game itself was enjoyable. There was a reason for going into these places to shoot everything in sight and the characters of Cole and Delta Squad are engaging. I love the way you hear something in the background and just as you&#8217;re thinking &#8220;What the hell was that?&#8221; one of the squad says exactly the same thing. That&#8217;s simple but effective writing. Sin Episodes &#8211; fun shooter built on the same engine as HL2, storyline was completely pants and clichÃ©. Neverwinter Nights 2 started out interesting but now I&#8217;m in the Docks in a boring Thieves vs City Guards storyline, which isn&#8217;t exactly inspiring to say the least.</p>
<p>Intriguing premise and characters can help make a good game into a great game. It can be the reason to choose shooter A over shooter B, especially if you don&#8217;t have an established franchise to build on.</p>
<p>The Secret of Monkey Island came out in 1990. The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Box" rel="nofollow">Gold Box D&#038;D games</a> started in 1988. Characters and plot in games isn&#8217;t that new a concept.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lair of the Monkey &#187; Storyline In Games&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/24/who-writes-games-anyway/comment-page-1/#comment-15275</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lair of the Monkey &#187; Storyline In Games&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2007/01/25/who-writes-games-anyway/#comment-15275</guid>
		<description>[...] Earth) and though this has decent plotting and pacing - but then is that what games are about?Â  Anyway, go take a look at what we both have to say and feel free to add your comments there or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Earth) and though this has decent plotting and pacing &#8211; but then is that what games are about?Â  Anyway, go take a look at what we both have to say and feel free to add your comments there or [...]</p>
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